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Thoughts on Hour 14:
1. Okay, let's get the LULZ stuff out of the way first.
First, best fight scene of the season so far. I didn't know how they would top Jack's Flying Squirrel impersonation when he tackled Tony in Hour 2, but busting out with the Bulldozer of Justice is definitely one way to do it. I love it when Jack is all creative with his weapons. His Bob the Builder moment ranks up there with "I'm gonna need a hacksaw." Definitely the LULZ moment of the episode.
Second place goes to Jonas Hodges' line toLucas Rory Cochrane's character about rounding up the troops of TerrorMinions and telling them to "pack their pajamas and their toothbrushes." I wonder, what does one pack for a Supervillain Slumber party?
And honorable mention goes to Renee's hair and make-up. For a girl who, in the last 14 hours, has been shot, buried alive, has pulled bodies out of an exploding car, has swum the Potomac and gotten chased through what must be the woods of the GW parkway, and has fought off Baby Dubaku- her hair and make-up tonight looked FANTASTIC. No seriously, when she whipped around and got carted away to holding, it was thisclose to being a Pantene commercial. And she retouched her lipstick. My fanwank is that after that dip in the Potomac, she decided, "Well, fuck it. I'm suspended, I might as well go take a shower at least." Renee, you may not have a job anymore, and you might be going to jail, but hey, at least you've got style.
2. I'm totally digging the Olivia/Ethan storyline. Mostly because I can't decide if she's channeling Sherry Palmer of S1 and is fiercely protective of her family to the point of ruthlessness, or Sherry Palmer of S3, hell bent on revenge for being cut out in the first place. I like that I don't know which way she's going to wind up, because so far, the only reason why I don't discount her is that Aaron is rarely wrong about his judgment in character, and he did see a lot of good in her. Maybe Olivia is just young and misguided. Or maybe she still wants to protect her mom, it's just that this is the only way she knows how because she's a ruthless cutthroat manipulator who's better served in business rather than diplomacy. It's hard to tell because she's a new character, but the writers are doing a good job keeping us guessing as to what her motives are. Props to Sprague Grayden for selling it too.
3. I think what also makes it work is because it also puts Jack's predicament into perspective too. As the audience and being privy to past history (or for new viewers, moments this season where Jack lets his guard down) we know Jack didn't do it, and we get frustrated when people don't listen to him. Or when people like Larry and Ethan think that Jack could have snapped and killed Burnett (and Meyer now). But just as we don't know Olivia, Larry and Ethan don't know Jack. They're just going on what they have seen, and all logic points to Jack being off his rocker, losing it, and going ballistic, because unlike Morris or Chloe or Renee, they haven't seen him up close and personal. And Jack rarely explains himself. (Although he's getting better at that. More on that below.) So it's interesting to see the parallels.
4. Morris made the right call. Chloe was also right to be upset. They're both right. They're both wrong. That's why I love this show. It says a lot about Jack that the loyalty he instills in the people in his inner circle is such that they will basically follow him into danger- even knowing all the costs. I love how understanding Morris was about Chloe's relationship with Jack and respects it, but Chloe also then needs to understand that if she's going to be that way with Jack, someone has to put their marriage and child first. It was a great scene. (Also as a side note, seriously, how bad are the FBI at their job that Morris can fix something in like 2 minutes that they can't do in 2 hours. Even their perimeter work is worse than CTU's, and THAT says something.)
5. I'm not sure what they're alluding to the motives with Jonas Hodges' reasons for being a supervillain, but it's nice to know it's not just because Lucas wants money. Lots of money. Joe's money. (Sorry for those of you who are confused, Jonas' aide is played by Rory Cochrane who will be forever known to me as Lucas from Empire Records.) Anyway, like I said, I'm glad they're picking up on what was implied with Burnett not taking the immunity. There's warped patriotism there, so I want to see where they will take it. At the very least, I'm glad that the connection between Dubaku-Juma-Hodges as villains is coherent and makes relative sense. Switching villains mid-season is always tricky, but this season has reached S1 levels of cohesiveness in terms of plot, which is pretty amazing when you consider where we were this time last season.
6. The Jack/Meyer conversation was nothing short of amazing. I loved that finally we had a good, complicated conversation, not about blah blah blah torturecakes, but about trusting the system vs operating outside of it. And the price operating outside of the system has on the ones who do. That's what it's really all about and this is the level of discussion we should have been having all season long. It's really a shame Meyer died- and it totally surprised me/disappointed me- because I feel we were finally getting there and then they go and off the one character who could have spread it to the Presidential/civilian level.
Thoughts on Renee/Jack/Larry:
Larry is still right about needing to bring Jack in, but that he's going about it in all the wrong ways. Larry is the Charlie Brown of S7. He's a good guy who is often right, but he messes it up all the time and the cute redhead he likes just won't give him the time of day. I think he went into that room wanting to bounce ideas off of Renee out of habit and going to her for help, only to realize that she was already helping Jack and was once again, cutting him out. Jeff Nordling's face after he realized that made me want to give him a big ole hug. And then he acted kinda like a jerk to Morris, and I wanted to hit him over the head, but from his POV, I can't blame him for at least questioning Jack's mental stability, because he hasn't seen Jack the way Renee has. Larry knows him well enough to give the line of the night: It is impossible to overestimate Jack Bauer. But he hasn't really had a chance to see who Jack is, only what he can do.
And it sucks for him because I do think that his relationship with Renee died tonight. After all this, he *still* tried to protect Renee, and when she turned him down, it's like he finally realized "She's Just Not Into You." Whatever it is that made them "Larry and Renee" whether they are exes or just really good friends just stopped, and the death of a 9 year relationship is just so sad to see, when you consider that Renee told Jack today that there's no one else she trusts more than Larry. It sucks because I really do think that Renee likes Larry and respects him and maybe even loves him as a friend. It's just that she's just had her entire world view shattered by the revelation that her government is corrupt, and she's sort of in a vulnerable place in terms of trust.
Larry, despite being a good man, still represents the Bureau and she no longer trusts the Bureau and its ways, at least not as blindly as she did before. Jack on the other hand, is someone with whom she thought she misplaced her trust, but turned out to be the one person who has delivered on every promise and has offered solutions to make things right. And he's done it completely in the open, being completely upfront that he knows he's asking a lot and that his ways are morally grey. Because of that, he has earned Renee's trust, while the Bureau, and by extension then Larry, has not. In a way, Jack has stepped in and given her something to trust in, so much so that she's willing to gamble it all- her career, her friendship with Larry, even her freedom- to help him.
And Jack, for his part, can't help but also be affected by Renee and her faith in him. I think that Renee, by trusting him, has shown him that someone believes in his humanity and goodness, which has been stripped away over the years. I *love* that fact that Jack is the one reaching out to Renee and *asking* her to trust him. It's such a stark difference to the way he strong-armed his way into convincing her to do it his way with Tanner back in Hour 2. This time, he asked and when he didn't get his way immediately and sensed her hesitation, he backed off. I think that Renee has totally gotten under his skin and that she's actually starting to rub off on him, because Jack opening up to Meyer is the start of a trend that began with Renee screaming at him in the hospital.
Since her slapping him, he's actually started communicating in ways that he refused to in Hour 1. At the beginning of the season, he refused to explain himself. He explained his actions as him operating by the rules of war (that there are no rules, only an objective and a mission), but he never explained *himself* and how he was feeling and how he could live with himself. In short, he never let them see that he was human. Since Renee slapped him though, he's started to talk and let people know what's going on. He let Renee see him post-explosion, and explained that Bill's death was supposed to be him. He actively called Larry and tried to explain what happened while still running. And now we have him reaching out to trust not only Renee but also to try to trust the system with Meyer. I'm beginning to think that whether she meant to or not, Renee has sparked a realization in Jack that while he doesn't have to explain himself, he does at least have to communicate and let people know what he's thinking.
Now I'm waiting to see, after Marika and after his conversation with Meyer, if the next time he has the opportunity to prevent innocents from becoming collateral damage, he takes it. Then it'll really start to be the beginning of the redemption of Jack Bauer- and I like that it started with Renee and was helped along by Senator Meyer.
ETA- Wow. That wasn't supposed to be that long. This was just a filler episode. LOL.
1. Okay, let's get the LULZ stuff out of the way first.
First, best fight scene of the season so far. I didn't know how they would top Jack's Flying Squirrel impersonation when he tackled Tony in Hour 2, but busting out with the Bulldozer of Justice is definitely one way to do it. I love it when Jack is all creative with his weapons. His Bob the Builder moment ranks up there with "I'm gonna need a hacksaw." Definitely the LULZ moment of the episode.
Second place goes to Jonas Hodges' line to
And honorable mention goes to Renee's hair and make-up. For a girl who, in the last 14 hours, has been shot, buried alive, has pulled bodies out of an exploding car, has swum the Potomac and gotten chased through what must be the woods of the GW parkway, and has fought off Baby Dubaku- her hair and make-up tonight looked FANTASTIC. No seriously, when she whipped around and got carted away to holding, it was thisclose to being a Pantene commercial. And she retouched her lipstick. My fanwank is that after that dip in the Potomac, she decided, "Well, fuck it. I'm suspended, I might as well go take a shower at least." Renee, you may not have a job anymore, and you might be going to jail, but hey, at least you've got style.
2. I'm totally digging the Olivia/Ethan storyline. Mostly because I can't decide if she's channeling Sherry Palmer of S1 and is fiercely protective of her family to the point of ruthlessness, or Sherry Palmer of S3, hell bent on revenge for being cut out in the first place. I like that I don't know which way she's going to wind up, because so far, the only reason why I don't discount her is that Aaron is rarely wrong about his judgment in character, and he did see a lot of good in her. Maybe Olivia is just young and misguided. Or maybe she still wants to protect her mom, it's just that this is the only way she knows how because she's a ruthless cutthroat manipulator who's better served in business rather than diplomacy. It's hard to tell because she's a new character, but the writers are doing a good job keeping us guessing as to what her motives are. Props to Sprague Grayden for selling it too.
3. I think what also makes it work is because it also puts Jack's predicament into perspective too. As the audience and being privy to past history (or for new viewers, moments this season where Jack lets his guard down) we know Jack didn't do it, and we get frustrated when people don't listen to him. Or when people like Larry and Ethan think that Jack could have snapped and killed Burnett (and Meyer now). But just as we don't know Olivia, Larry and Ethan don't know Jack. They're just going on what they have seen, and all logic points to Jack being off his rocker, losing it, and going ballistic, because unlike Morris or Chloe or Renee, they haven't seen him up close and personal. And Jack rarely explains himself. (Although he's getting better at that. More on that below.) So it's interesting to see the parallels.
4. Morris made the right call. Chloe was also right to be upset. They're both right. They're both wrong. That's why I love this show. It says a lot about Jack that the loyalty he instills in the people in his inner circle is such that they will basically follow him into danger- even knowing all the costs. I love how understanding Morris was about Chloe's relationship with Jack and respects it, but Chloe also then needs to understand that if she's going to be that way with Jack, someone has to put their marriage and child first. It was a great scene. (Also as a side note, seriously, how bad are the FBI at their job that Morris can fix something in like 2 minutes that they can't do in 2 hours. Even their perimeter work is worse than CTU's, and THAT says something.)
5. I'm not sure what they're alluding to the motives with Jonas Hodges' reasons for being a supervillain, but it's nice to know it's not just because Lucas wants money. Lots of money. Joe's money. (Sorry for those of you who are confused, Jonas' aide is played by Rory Cochrane who will be forever known to me as Lucas from Empire Records.) Anyway, like I said, I'm glad they're picking up on what was implied with Burnett not taking the immunity. There's warped patriotism there, so I want to see where they will take it. At the very least, I'm glad that the connection between Dubaku-Juma-Hodges as villains is coherent and makes relative sense. Switching villains mid-season is always tricky, but this season has reached S1 levels of cohesiveness in terms of plot, which is pretty amazing when you consider where we were this time last season.
6. The Jack/Meyer conversation was nothing short of amazing. I loved that finally we had a good, complicated conversation, not about blah blah blah torturecakes, but about trusting the system vs operating outside of it. And the price operating outside of the system has on the ones who do. That's what it's really all about and this is the level of discussion we should have been having all season long. It's really a shame Meyer died- and it totally surprised me/disappointed me- because I feel we were finally getting there and then they go and off the one character who could have spread it to the Presidential/civilian level.
Thoughts on Renee/Jack/Larry:
Larry is still right about needing to bring Jack in, but that he's going about it in all the wrong ways. Larry is the Charlie Brown of S7. He's a good guy who is often right, but he messes it up all the time and the cute redhead he likes just won't give him the time of day. I think he went into that room wanting to bounce ideas off of Renee out of habit and going to her for help, only to realize that she was already helping Jack and was once again, cutting him out. Jeff Nordling's face after he realized that made me want to give him a big ole hug. And then he acted kinda like a jerk to Morris, and I wanted to hit him over the head, but from his POV, I can't blame him for at least questioning Jack's mental stability, because he hasn't seen Jack the way Renee has. Larry knows him well enough to give the line of the night: It is impossible to overestimate Jack Bauer. But he hasn't really had a chance to see who Jack is, only what he can do.
And it sucks for him because I do think that his relationship with Renee died tonight. After all this, he *still* tried to protect Renee, and when she turned him down, it's like he finally realized "She's Just Not Into You." Whatever it is that made them "Larry and Renee" whether they are exes or just really good friends just stopped, and the death of a 9 year relationship is just so sad to see, when you consider that Renee told Jack today that there's no one else she trusts more than Larry. It sucks because I really do think that Renee likes Larry and respects him and maybe even loves him as a friend. It's just that she's just had her entire world view shattered by the revelation that her government is corrupt, and she's sort of in a vulnerable place in terms of trust.
Larry, despite being a good man, still represents the Bureau and she no longer trusts the Bureau and its ways, at least not as blindly as she did before. Jack on the other hand, is someone with whom she thought she misplaced her trust, but turned out to be the one person who has delivered on every promise and has offered solutions to make things right. And he's done it completely in the open, being completely upfront that he knows he's asking a lot and that his ways are morally grey. Because of that, he has earned Renee's trust, while the Bureau, and by extension then Larry, has not. In a way, Jack has stepped in and given her something to trust in, so much so that she's willing to gamble it all- her career, her friendship with Larry, even her freedom- to help him.
And Jack, for his part, can't help but also be affected by Renee and her faith in him. I think that Renee, by trusting him, has shown him that someone believes in his humanity and goodness, which has been stripped away over the years. I *love* that fact that Jack is the one reaching out to Renee and *asking* her to trust him. It's such a stark difference to the way he strong-armed his way into convincing her to do it his way with Tanner back in Hour 2. This time, he asked and when he didn't get his way immediately and sensed her hesitation, he backed off. I think that Renee has totally gotten under his skin and that she's actually starting to rub off on him, because Jack opening up to Meyer is the start of a trend that began with Renee screaming at him in the hospital.
Since her slapping him, he's actually started communicating in ways that he refused to in Hour 1. At the beginning of the season, he refused to explain himself. He explained his actions as him operating by the rules of war (that there are no rules, only an objective and a mission), but he never explained *himself* and how he was feeling and how he could live with himself. In short, he never let them see that he was human. Since Renee slapped him though, he's started to talk and let people know what's going on. He let Renee see him post-explosion, and explained that Bill's death was supposed to be him. He actively called Larry and tried to explain what happened while still running. And now we have him reaching out to trust not only Renee but also to try to trust the system with Meyer. I'm beginning to think that whether she meant to or not, Renee has sparked a realization in Jack that while he doesn't have to explain himself, he does at least have to communicate and let people know what he's thinking.
Now I'm waiting to see, after Marika and after his conversation with Meyer, if the next time he has the opportunity to prevent innocents from becoming collateral damage, he takes it. Then it'll really start to be the beginning of the redemption of Jack Bauer- and I like that it started with Renee and was helped along by Senator Meyer.
ETA- Wow. That wasn't supposed to be that long. This was just a filler episode. LOL.
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1) DUDE. BOB THE BUILDER FTW. BULLDOZER OF JUSTICE! I think that's right up there with a hacksaw. Jack doesn't need a gun or anything, he just needs...whatever's around him. The Macgyver of agents.
For a supervillain party you totally wear your suit pajamas. Duh. Renee's hair and everything looked so gorgeous. I wish I looked like that when I left the house after getting ready, forget about the day she's had.
2) I WANT to believe Livvie. I do. But I don't know, man. And wow Ethan got all growly. Seriously, you don't grab people like that, Ethan. I so wonder 'bout you. I think she may push the envelope but I don't know and her "give him a call" seemed like a bluff. However, it's a nice call back to s2 Sherry and no one had to be kept in a room for hours either!
3) I LOVE how you put that. Yes, exactly, we don't know Livvie and they don't know Jack. Anyone who knows Jack would know how OOC it would be for him to be doing what they're accusing him of doing. I'm reminded of season five and I believe Audie's "he wouldn't kill his friends". Also how the hell would he have gotten to the video, Larry? Is he magical?
4) I adored that Morris was like "Jack's a friend" because I so thought he'd sell him out sooner or for really nothing. He respects Chloe's relationship with him which is really quite mature and real character growth after how he acted when Chloe was helping Jack last season. Also, I'm SO convinced that he wrote that encryption program which is why he was able to break into it in like 3 seconds.
5) I think I've figured out this one. Bear with me for a moment. Starkwood is in trouble, not needed, persecuted, etc. What if there was a problem the army/police/etc couldn't handle, like a virus out break that caused *violence* (ala Blood or Ice *waves to x-files or the first Batman movie with the gas). But think about it, you have police who are impacted, all these people who cannot do anything, but oh, look, here's Starkwood swooping in and saving the day. This is my theory at least. The connection is awesome. Starkwood testing weapons in Sangala and then needing to help Juma to get the weapons BACK.
6) Yes. The conversation was amazing. I loved how they had a real connection in that moment. Meyer saw that Jack isn't a monster and Jack saw that Meyer wasn't just on a crusade. He was a good guy. He was what he seemed to be. And that's rare. Also he called him SON, which yeah, is huge. I was so upset and *angry* when he died. I was not expecting it. And it made me really want to see Quinn hurt even more.
Love Triangle that Isn't:
I agree with everything you said up there. I think what Renee represents is that there's still good in the world, that the system isn't completely corrupt, that there's hope. Because she doesn't know him so well, she doesn't read his get the hell away from me signals, she's not afraid to push past his carefully constructed barriers that *everyone* else stays behind. You see it with his interactions with Chloe and Tony. And that led to the realization that he still *wants* someone to break through those walls.
I think you're right with the explaining, but I think the white house raid and everything has also impacted something deep inside. Renee forced him to face himself and he was horrified when he saw through her eyes.
Larry's in the middle because he's "the man" he's authority and the system and everything that has been broken. In a way, Larry's wrong because he thinks the system can still work. If he believes that Jack's been set up, that there's a force trying to manipulate at a high level, well...that might be something outside his ability to accept. Renee does though and she's stepped outside of the authority box and into the unknown (oh she's SO Scully, no seriously).
I so agree about the death of their relationship. It's sad because it was probably a really good one with trust and late night working and stuff.
Oooo I hope there's innocents being protected later.
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With apologies for the long response
I have to admit that I was feeling rather meh about the episode, in large part because I miss my Bill so very much that a lot of my love for the show has now departed.
However, what I did enjoy about last night were those quieter character-driven moments that have been so compelling this year (compared to the horror of Season 6). I too absolutely loved the conversation between Jack and Senator Meyer, and I was shocked/bummed when Meyer was killed. I especially loved Meyer's (paraphrased) line, "It's time you started trusting the very institutions you've spent so long protecting." And of course, Jack's response, that trust isn't one of his biggest assets. Because both are so very, very true.
Larry, Larry, Larry. I really want to like him. I think the actor is doing a terrific job, but the writing for him is so uneven that it's driving me crazy. I feel like he's anti-Jack only when the story calls for someone to oppose him; otherwise he's just another typical FBI bureaucrat.
Larry did have two of the best lines of the night, for me. First, when he said to Renee, "It's been a long day. Why don't you go home and get some sleep?" because someone on this show finally acknowledged how hella crazy these days are! And then I also loved when Janice asked him if he really thought Jack killed Burnett, and he said, "I don't know. I don't care. He's a federal fugitive anyway and has to be brought in." That right there summed up everything about his character: no personal vendettas, no grievances, just a decent man trying to do his job the best way he knows how.
Lordy, I just realized -- Larry has the potential to be the next Bill Buchanan. And...I don't know if that scares me, worries me, or makes me happy.
Oh, and hey, you might know the answer. One of my friends at work watches the show too and we were conflicted in our thoughts on how Jack got injured before the Bob the Bulldozer (hee!) scene. I thought he cut himself on the fence, and she thought Quentin shot him. What did you see?
Re: With apologies for the long response
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One of my favorite moments last night (save the speech, which can't be topped) was when Jack thought Renee wasn't going to help, and just. . . backed off. He doesn't surprise me a lot, even though I'm new, but that surprised me. He has so much anger and urgency, and to see him looking almost hurt because he'd made the call and it was looking as if he'd chosen wrong. . . that was heavy.
And I have to hand it to you. You even have me feeling almost sorry for Larry after what you said above. Almost;) It does have to be hard for him to watch what's going on with Renee and know that he's powerless to stop it, but there's also that awful moment that happens when you realize you don't know someone one tenth as much as you thought you did, which hurts like a sonofabitch. So kudos to you for making me see this from Larry's side -- I think you know that's kind of a feat!
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I just re-watched the scne where Mayer comes hime. He almost puts his coat in the houseplant, which i thought was touching. It's the sort of dumb thing one does when tired.
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1) Jack with feelings. Whoa.
2) Jack vs Gordon Ramsay... I mean... black ops badguy... Obviously Jack would win, but Gordon Ramsay totally got some good hits in. But of course we knew that Gordon Ramsay would die (felled by a good screwdriver, but not the vodka-and-orange-juice kind), since Jack of course takes no prisoners. I was half-hoping that Jack would strip off the kevlar vest but it'd probably be covered in blood. But come on... Jack has stayed in a shirt and suit jacket a LITTLE TOO MUCH... bring back the long-sleeved T!
3) I really liked the senator and was yelling at my TV when he got killed.
4) I also loved seeing Morris back. It's weird seeing him here, and then jumping to Little Mosque on the Prairie, where he does comedy.
5) Yay! Tony's back!
You covered everything else. However... who'd be the worst boss, Gordon Ramsay or Jack? Oh Hell's Kitchen would never be the same. I can just see it... *contestant brings a burnt filet to the pass* "DAMMIT! I asked for rare! We need to get this order out! We're outta time!" *throws filet at contestant which kills contestant*. Yup. I'm onto something here.
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