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1. I call foul on the way the writers handled the chip. First, Jack knows better than to hand the only piece of evidence/leverage/information to stop the corruption over to a stranger. I get it that they needed to do it for expediency of the plot, but dude. Come on, at least put some effort into it. Also, as mentioned in Karen's reaction post, HELLO AIDS. I'm not saying Debaku had HIV or anything, but dude, that's why we use GLOVES. Especially if you're dealing with individuals you know spend lots of time in the not-so-savory parts of [unspecified region of] Africa. Maybe this is just the stuff I hear about from Mom's reports and stuff, but you'd think Jack, having spent time in Sengala, would be more aware. Sheeesh.
2. You know, I wasn't counting on Erica being a mole as well. It makes sense in retrospect, but good on the writers for playing with our past experiences and making us think that either Sean was a red herring for Erica or vice versa, when in fact both of them were moles. I still am confused why Erica thought it'd be a good idea to start smooching when they clearly needed to get out, but I didn't really like her character so whatever.
3. Was Chloe just screwing with Larry about the information being wiped out because she thought Larry might be in on it? Because that's the only way I can explain why we got the weird fake out. Her backing up the data using a mirror database makes sense. Not telling Larry about it and making him think they lost all the information doesn't. Not unless she wasn't sure about who the mole was and was covering her bases until the mole revealed him/herself.
4. Purple stocking, Janis? Really?
5. Awwww, Bill vouching for Jack. Damn straight he doesn't deserve it. Not much else to say on the Taylor front except that I am intrigued by what the writers have planned for Olivia. Her vaguely antagonistic relationship with her mother is not unlike Kim and Jack's relationship and it certainly makes for some very interesting parallels, if the writers continue with this trend of comparing S1 to S7 via new characters as mirrors. Still, I dig the Taylor women thus far, so here's hoping.
6. Nice to see you back, Tony. I was half expecting Renee to be the one to find Jack on the steps of the Capitol, and I'm a little bit confused as to how Tony managed to track Jack down. But since Tony brought with him the "Oh so that's where we're going next for the rest of the season," I'll take it. Tony needs to stop being so shady about it though. And wow, the CoS of Senator Meyers? Thaaaaaaaaaaaaat's gonna go over well, I'm sure. I just hope they still bring Renee along for the ride. It'll ratchet up the "Are you in or are you out?" question that Renee's been forced to deal with all season long- and I hope that even if the boys go off without her for now, they bring her and Larry in on it if only because they need an actual agency to legitimize their actions in the eyes of the President.
7. Jack and Renee's hospital conversation: More on that below, but for now I gotta say, DAMN. Renee Walker, I love you and your incredible backbone. Way to totally do something and MEAN IT, girl.
So first, let's backtrack. A lot of S7 has shown Jack to be so very cold, almost zombie like in the way he switches from being a rage-filled, killing machine, poster boy for anger management to showing no emotion and being so zen about his fate, he practically rivals Charlie Crews on Life. But I've been thinking about all the stuff he's spouted this season. About how he doesn't regret his actions. About how he doesn't seem to get angry about the injustice of his being trial or his apathy when Larry baited him about his methods. About how he keeps chanting, "what is necessary" like it's his own personal mantra. About there being 2 worlds- one that he protects and the one he lives in.
And I think what it boils down to is that Jack has devised a twisted sense of justice based on necessary costs as a coping mechanism.
I think that at the end of Redemption, Jack has finally snapped. When Carl asks him to get the boys to safety at all costs and Gil Bellow's character actually names his freedom as that cost, it's almost as if Jack realized that nobody is playing by any moral code- not the terrorists, not the government- nobody. There only seems to be one rule: if you want something, you have to pay the necessary cost. And from then on, it's like something in his head clicked into place: One world benefits at the price of the other's.
In a twisted way, this system of payment makes sense to him because if he looks at his life solely through this lens, it allows Jack to live with the trauma of what he and his co-workers have lived through. The jailtime Tony did for his actions in S3? The price he paid to save Michelle. Palmer dying and Michelle dying? The cost of helping Jack disappear off the radar. Everything that he endured in China? Was to buy the safety of Americans.
So the fact that he had to give him his freedom to honor Carl's last wish makes sense to him according to this logic. It's why he accepts it without a fight, because it's no longer about right or wrong. It's about necessary costs and are you willing to live with it. The fact that he had a choice in the matter is just icing on the cake.
With this in mind, now flash forward now to Marika Donoso. Suddenly all his speeches to Renee about things being necessary, about Marika having a choice, make sense. In his eyes, Marika had made the switch from the world of benefiters to the world of those paying the price. He didn't bother pulling her from the car because she no longer fit into the former (or he already saw that she was dead, whichever you want to believe). So while it's sad, he can't bring himself to get worked up about it. It's the cost of doing business.
The problem is, this logic of no moral code and everyone falling into one world or the other doesn't hold up over time, and he knows it. He knows because of Teri. If everything has a necessary cost, then Teri's death should have bought Nina enough time to escape. But she didn't, and she could have picked another way to incapacitate a pregnant civilian, so that makes Teri's death senseless. Same goes for Audrey. Audrey suffered at the hands of the Chinese, but she still wasn't able to break Jack out. Teri and Audrey don't fit his theory.
But if Jack lets himself think about it, then he'll lose it. He'll get angry Teri again. He will get angry at what happened to Audrey. He'll get angry about what happened to Palmer and Michelle and Tony. And he'll be angry about Carl and about the Senate hearing. If it's just business, then it's just business- but if you bring right and wrong into the mix then it becomes messy and senseless. So he keeps repeating himself over and over, like he's trying to convince himself more than Renee and Larry, that his logic makes sense. Even though at the core of it, he knows that full of shit, he needs it to operate.
That's why Renee is so problematic for him. She keeps getting under his skin because she does all the "necessary" things Jack does, but she also thinks about the world the way Larry does. She keeps FEEEEELING things, and reminding him that some people still operate under a moral code of right and wrong. Renee make Jack question own his logic and keeps forcing him to feel things. Her emotions keep making him lose his grasp on his world because he sees himself in her, but the old him that still saw things in right and wrong.
That scene in the hallway pretty much is the culmination of what has been building since the beginning of the season: "What do you want from me?" "I want to know if you feel anything." And even though her reference to Teri didn't make sense (because why would Jack see her as a necessary cost, when her death had nothing to do with preserving national security), the mere mention of Teri coupled with Renee's sense of right and wrong set him off.
I suspect that if Renee keeps hanging out with Jack, Jack's gonna lose it and I think that's what the producers are talking about in terms of bringing Jack's character to a new emotional space. Seeing Jack really deal with his trauma is something we've never seen on camera, beyond the short bit we saw in the beginning of certain seasons, because he's always been running. Carl mentioned in Redemption that the only way he figured out how to live it life was when he stopped running. If Renee ends up being the person who forces Jack to stop and explain himself (since he's about to do it for the Senate), if she ends up being the person he actually TALKS to about this stuff or (bears witness to it with a certain someone coming along), I say bring it on.
2. You know, I wasn't counting on Erica being a mole as well. It makes sense in retrospect, but good on the writers for playing with our past experiences and making us think that either Sean was a red herring for Erica or vice versa, when in fact both of them were moles. I still am confused why Erica thought it'd be a good idea to start smooching when they clearly needed to get out, but I didn't really like her character so whatever.
3. Was Chloe just screwing with Larry about the information being wiped out because she thought Larry might be in on it? Because that's the only way I can explain why we got the weird fake out. Her backing up the data using a mirror database makes sense. Not telling Larry about it and making him think they lost all the information doesn't. Not unless she wasn't sure about who the mole was and was covering her bases until the mole revealed him/herself.
4. Purple stocking, Janis? Really?
5. Awwww, Bill vouching for Jack. Damn straight he doesn't deserve it. Not much else to say on the Taylor front except that I am intrigued by what the writers have planned for Olivia. Her vaguely antagonistic relationship with her mother is not unlike Kim and Jack's relationship and it certainly makes for some very interesting parallels, if the writers continue with this trend of comparing S1 to S7 via new characters as mirrors. Still, I dig the Taylor women thus far, so here's hoping.
6. Nice to see you back, Tony. I was half expecting Renee to be the one to find Jack on the steps of the Capitol, and I'm a little bit confused as to how Tony managed to track Jack down. But since Tony brought with him the "Oh so that's where we're going next for the rest of the season," I'll take it. Tony needs to stop being so shady about it though. And wow, the CoS of Senator Meyers? Thaaaaaaaaaaaaat's gonna go over well, I'm sure. I just hope they still bring Renee along for the ride. It'll ratchet up the "Are you in or are you out?" question that Renee's been forced to deal with all season long- and I hope that even if the boys go off without her for now, they bring her and Larry in on it if only because they need an actual agency to legitimize their actions in the eyes of the President.
7. Jack and Renee's hospital conversation: More on that below, but for now I gotta say, DAMN. Renee Walker, I love you and your incredible backbone. Way to totally do something and MEAN IT, girl.
So first, let's backtrack. A lot of S7 has shown Jack to be so very cold, almost zombie like in the way he switches from being a rage-filled, killing machine, poster boy for anger management to showing no emotion and being so zen about his fate, he practically rivals Charlie Crews on Life. But I've been thinking about all the stuff he's spouted this season. About how he doesn't regret his actions. About how he doesn't seem to get angry about the injustice of his being trial or his apathy when Larry baited him about his methods. About how he keeps chanting, "what is necessary" like it's his own personal mantra. About there being 2 worlds- one that he protects and the one he lives in.
And I think what it boils down to is that Jack has devised a twisted sense of justice based on necessary costs as a coping mechanism.
I think that at the end of Redemption, Jack has finally snapped. When Carl asks him to get the boys to safety at all costs and Gil Bellow's character actually names his freedom as that cost, it's almost as if Jack realized that nobody is playing by any moral code- not the terrorists, not the government- nobody. There only seems to be one rule: if you want something, you have to pay the necessary cost. And from then on, it's like something in his head clicked into place: One world benefits at the price of the other's.
In a twisted way, this system of payment makes sense to him because if he looks at his life solely through this lens, it allows Jack to live with the trauma of what he and his co-workers have lived through. The jailtime Tony did for his actions in S3? The price he paid to save Michelle. Palmer dying and Michelle dying? The cost of helping Jack disappear off the radar. Everything that he endured in China? Was to buy the safety of Americans.
So the fact that he had to give him his freedom to honor Carl's last wish makes sense to him according to this logic. It's why he accepts it without a fight, because it's no longer about right or wrong. It's about necessary costs and are you willing to live with it. The fact that he had a choice in the matter is just icing on the cake.
With this in mind, now flash forward now to Marika Donoso. Suddenly all his speeches to Renee about things being necessary, about Marika having a choice, make sense. In his eyes, Marika had made the switch from the world of benefiters to the world of those paying the price. He didn't bother pulling her from the car because she no longer fit into the former (or he already saw that she was dead, whichever you want to believe). So while it's sad, he can't bring himself to get worked up about it. It's the cost of doing business.
The problem is, this logic of no moral code and everyone falling into one world or the other doesn't hold up over time, and he knows it. He knows because of Teri. If everything has a necessary cost, then Teri's death should have bought Nina enough time to escape. But she didn't, and she could have picked another way to incapacitate a pregnant civilian, so that makes Teri's death senseless. Same goes for Audrey. Audrey suffered at the hands of the Chinese, but she still wasn't able to break Jack out. Teri and Audrey don't fit his theory.
But if Jack lets himself think about it, then he'll lose it. He'll get angry Teri again. He will get angry at what happened to Audrey. He'll get angry about what happened to Palmer and Michelle and Tony. And he'll be angry about Carl and about the Senate hearing. If it's just business, then it's just business- but if you bring right and wrong into the mix then it becomes messy and senseless. So he keeps repeating himself over and over, like he's trying to convince himself more than Renee and Larry, that his logic makes sense. Even though at the core of it, he knows that full of shit, he needs it to operate.
That's why Renee is so problematic for him. She keeps getting under his skin because she does all the "necessary" things Jack does, but she also thinks about the world the way Larry does. She keeps FEEEEELING things, and reminding him that some people still operate under a moral code of right and wrong. Renee make Jack question own his logic and keeps forcing him to feel things. Her emotions keep making him lose his grasp on his world because he sees himself in her, but the old him that still saw things in right and wrong.
That scene in the hallway pretty much is the culmination of what has been building since the beginning of the season: "What do you want from me?" "I want to know if you feel anything." And even though her reference to Teri didn't make sense (because why would Jack see her as a necessary cost, when her death had nothing to do with preserving national security), the mere mention of Teri coupled with Renee's sense of right and wrong set him off.
I suspect that if Renee keeps hanging out with Jack, Jack's gonna lose it and I think that's what the producers are talking about in terms of bringing Jack's character to a new emotional space. Seeing Jack really deal with his trauma is something we've never seen on camera, beyond the short bit we saw in the beginning of certain seasons, because he's always been running. Carl mentioned in Redemption that the only way he figured out how to live it life was when he stopped running. If Renee ends up being the person who forces Jack to stop and explain himself (since he's about to do it for the Senate), if she ends up being the person he actually TALKS to about this stuff or (bears witness to it with a certain someone coming along), I say bring it on.
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And about Jack, I definitely agree that whenever he says this stuff it's as much or more to convince himself than to try and convince someone else. I'm not sure about the explanation behind it is quite that elaborate, but I think he's at least trying to deaden himself to feeling things. As I mentioned to a couple people in AIM last night I think he really has to be feeling an overall "don't get close to people because you're going to lose them", not just because of his job but in general, as losing Carl wasn't related to Jack's job or his fault in any way. Maybe part of him just feels that if he doesn't allow himself to care, convinces himself that what he does is necessary and that's it, it's easier for him. And of course by completely denying that it has an effect on him (because Jack does feel things very deeply) he's just guaranteeing he's going to have a meltdown at some point.
I also have to wonder if it's some Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder as well, as part of the symptoms of that are bursts of anger and/or "flattened affect"--not showing/feeling emotions.
But as I was saying in my post yesterday, OH GOD I WANT HIM TO HAVE A MELTDOWN AND I WANT RENEE TO BE THERE. It's about frigging time he talked to someone about this stuff, and Renee pushes him enough that she might actually make him do it.
Also I want her to see that he's not really the ruthless zombie she thinks he is, because I want them to get together!From:
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My theory up there is straight up me playing shrink on a fictional character. I don't even think that Jack realizes what he is doing and the fact that he's, as you say, a classic case of self- preservation. But again, that's why Renee, and to a certain degree Larry, is so effective right now, because she's forcing him to open up and gain some self-awareness.
And I don't know about them getting together, but I think the writers are definitely going to let Renee see his meltdown because this season, she's totally the eyes of the audience. This season is all about the Deconstruction and Redemption of Jack Bauer, but they needed a newbie to witness all of it, so they created Renee. The fact that they made her AWESOME is only becase it's the only way it'd be believable that Jack would let her see it. The shipping is totally optional. (ps. Are you or someone going to re-write the last scene on the Capitol steps with Renee instead of Tony? Please direct me to the fic.)
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I should mention that I'm not bound and determined for them to end up shagging; I'd be very happy with a Jack-Renee friendship sort of thing. But at the same time Jack needs someone to hug him and love him and smack him upside the head sometimes, and Renee would do a good job, I think. :D
And word on why she needed to be awesome, other than the fact that TV needs more awesome women (and we needed something to rinse the lingering bad taste of Marilyn out of our mouths). I think Jack will have a hard enough time showing vulnerability to someone he considers an equal, much less someone he sees as someone he needs to protect.
Shipping is optional, but with these two I go for that option whole-heartedly. :D
And
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So in other words, you want Renee to be like Tony in S2, who was all, "I know" in the opener of S2. *grin* All seriousness, though, the strong friendship/partner-y thing is what I want the most for Jack and Renee . In Firefly terms, I almost want Renee to be the Zoe to Jack's Mal. Soulmates without the romance thing. (Why am I always trying to create OT3s?)
Also: Yo, link a girl up, once that ish is written, fo' realz.
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2. I loved that Erica turned out to be a mole - totally unexpected to me. I like how it added depth to earlier character stuff with her too. I don't think she was as emotional as Sean kept telling her she was, but man compared to him it's not hard to be overly emotional.
5. YES! I had my doubts about you Bill, but you really came through in a way you did not in season six with your Captain Pitcher-ness.
6. Why is Tony so shady? I know it's on purpose, but why? I just really wonder about that, I'm gonna worry about it all season long.
7. Renee is so - omg I have an entire essay to post tonight about the hospital hallway scene.
We've seen the necessary cost thing before last season and before - the "can you live with it" question is a big one.
I kinda think it's more a need not to care - this is where we see what losing Audrey, really his last connection to humanity, did to him. He rationalizes to himself, absolutely. He can't believe most of what he's saying and he knows it. I think he rationalizes China as the payment for his sins, even if he wasn't sent there for them. He'll do almost anything for the greater good (season three and four are excellent examples). But "greater good" is the rallying cry for season seven and we're seeing some reasons to doubt that rationalization, like the dead people on the plane, Latham, Vossler's wife, Samantha, Marika...
I love that you say Marika went from benefited to payer, because that's absolutely what happened. She made the choice to join the game, which means she already signed on to die and she knew the risks. He cared about her as a means to an end (getting Dubaku). He tells Renee she'll learn to live with it, but she won't, because once you learn to live with people dying and trauma and horrible events without feeling it you're no better than a Sean or a Gedge.
I disagree a little because I think even if Teri's death let Nina escape that wouldn't make it okay in his mind. He still has a sense of right and wrong, there's just a lot of shading (Sherry would be happy). He's not angry about Teri's murder, he reacts because he can't take people bringing her up, her murder and the circumstances around it is a wound that is easy to reopen. It's almost like a bum leg or a glass jaw. I personally think he still feels responsible - he failed her - and he ruined the life they'd created.
His world is so not healthy. Everywhere he turns are people who are telling him he's flawed or a renegade, or inhuman. Renee treated him with respect, listened to him, believed IN him (hi Mulder!) - but then she's just like everyone else. And she echoes what Larry said earlier. And he thought she understood him, or saw him as more than just someone to be activated, but she can't read him.
And YES, he totally sees old him in her, but I kinda think if Tony hadn't shown up, she wouldn't have had a foot hold.
But I think we've seen that before at the end of the season, however, if he brought up China or anything about how he feels I would just omg - LOVE. He doesn't have to explain himself, and it's mostly rationalizations about greater good and what was necessary anyway.
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6. I KNOW RIGHT?!! He's so shady and whispery. I don't get it.'
7. Must check your journal now.
I disagree a little because I think even if Teri's death let Nina escape that wouldn't make it okay in his mind... He's not angry about Teri's murder, he reacts because he can't take people bringing her up, her murder and the circumstances around it is a wound that is easy to reopen... I personally think he still feels responsible - he failed her - and he ruined the life they'd created.
Fair point. If Nina had gotten away, Jack would still think it's unfair because Teri's a pregnant civilian who's been traumatized all day. What's she going to do against Nina? But I think that the fact that Nina killed Teri and didn't get away is salt in the wound.
And I don't think Jack will ever NOT be angry about Teri's murder because it's tied to Nina's betrayal. He may have gotten to the point where he can live with the dull ache of losing Teri, and I agree he's probably angry at himself- but I think that even after killing Nina, he will always hate her, because he loved her too once, and definitely trusted her. YMMV, of course, but there's so much going on there than just Teri become collateral damage.
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Well, that's the flaw in Jack's collateral damage theory, as even when Nina's all "it was just business and not personal" he could not accept that answer. Why? Because it was HIS wife. It's not rational, and more than vaguely hypocritical, but there it is.
I'm not sure if he still hates Nina, I think all his hate's been turned inward. I really think he was doing better with the whole losing Teri thing before he faked his death after that and it became clear he was never ever going to be that man again, it got harder for him to remember.
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Well, maybe hate is too strong a word. I agree that he hasn't dealt with his own culpability (perceived or not, whereas he's gotten some closure on Nina to the point that he can live with it. The fact that he got to kill her probably takes the sting out of her memory, yeah. But learning to live with it and moving past the hate are two different things. I'd be interested to see how he'd react to Nina's name, since we're throwing around names of 24 seasons' past, because I still think there's a bitterness there that will never be erased.
Still I agree with your assessment about him doing better until S4. Up until that point, he could continue to work with it, as he was with Audrey, but when he faked his own death, he essentially had to cut all ties with everyone. And the fact that he had to let go of Kim like that? That is the kicker.
ETA: Well, that's the flaw in Jack's collateral damage theory, as even when Nina's all "it was just business and not personal" he could not accept that answer. Why? Because it was HIS wife. It's not rational, and more than vaguely hypocritical, but there it is.
OMG. When did Jack turn into Nina, and what would he say if someone point that out to him. *flail* Someone please write this.
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I think Nina made him more distrustful. I think he wanted to be healed in day four, but mostly was able to just pretend to be someone else. Yes, letting go of Kim like that = feeling even more guilty about Teri. He can't even begin to address how he feels about what he did to his daughter - even if he could rationalize it away as protecting her.
You know who else he started sounding like? Marie. And Henderson. And lots of other villains who had no problem with collateral damage and the ends justify the means.
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Okay, can you PLEASE write something where someone points this out. Of course, I can't think of anyone who'd actually be able to make these comparisons, because at this point, Tony is in a similar boat as Jack. Rachel, why are our boys so broken and lost without their girlfriends? How did they get to this point? I just want to give them both hugs.
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I know and somehow developed such unpopular opinions about it too. I used to know these two women who hated Teri and when I started watching in s2 I talked to them a lot and agreed because I never saw her and all we had was that one story Jack told about her and then I saw season one and was all TERI IS AWESOME and yes, that's a fact.
I can't either, it would almost have to be like...no I can't think of anyone who would make the comparison but it would be fantastic. They're so broken and lost without family, forget about girlfriends. So want to give hugs.
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Dude. I can't imagine you not liking Teri. A world where you don't like Teri doesn't make sense to me.
ps. Am working on the draft for 7x03 and I've hit a major block on some of it. It needs some major work. I might just post what I've got tomorrow night and then you can help me make it better.
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That's true, and if they never saw it, that kind of obsession would be difficult.
Sure!! I can do that!!!