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Yes I had to throw a Firefly reference in there. I needed to because, man, Monday nights are going to be the death of me. Both my shows had game-changing eps, but given the differences in their genre, the wild rides couldn't be more different.
Chuck vs the First Kill:
1. OMG SARAH WENT ROGUE FOR CHUCK. SARAH WENT ROGUE FOR CHUCK!!!! Third time's a charm, I guess. And I really love how they just went full throttle, running away. And she was totally in complete and full girlfriend mode the entire episode. She brought him fro-yo, guys. Even when they disagree, Chuck and Sarah acted like such a couple. And her *face* when Jill's family was talking about how perfect Chuck and Jill were for each other, and Casey's face because he knew it was getting to her and Chuck's face being all so uncomfortable...it was just PERFECT. Also, that promo? Chuck and Sarah need to make out forever and ever and ever.
2. All in all though, I'm glad that Chuck won't change and that Jill's still a wild card. She has reasons to trust Chuck, and I'm glad that he let her go, because it leaves the door open for another game changer event. She still is selfish and self-serving and that's not going to change. Her loyalties are flexible, and it's now going to be a question of just how much she's willing to compromise herself for Chuck who loves her, but not THAT way anymore.
3. Man, Casey's gonna be pissed that they flipped on him and abandoned Team Chuck. He's right that Chuck is probably safer underground, but he's wrong because Chuck would just shut down if he were forced to do so. Still, I enjoyed their little moments discussing the Morgan and taking the test. Schnook and Copface are still so very awesome. And his face when he was being sarcastic about throwing Chuck into a hole? I liked that he didn't like it, but that his motivation for following through with the order is because it's to keep Chuck safe. When you consider that he knows it's the better alternative to what they ordered him to do in the premiere, his decision makes sense.
4. Now that Sarah and Chuck have gone rogue, does that mean that Chuck's going to have to use the Intersect Force and will information to come to him? I hope so. And I hope Sarah gets to see it.
5. And you guys, how Jack Bauer was Chuck tonight? With his "whatever it takes" and lying to his bitch of an ex and holding a bad guy over a railing ala Jack and Marwan in S4? Except, because he's Chuck and adorable, he's all, "No, that's a horrible way to die!" Heehee. I've never before have I seen the similarities of Chuck and 24 more than I did tonight. Questions of loyalty and betrayal? Check. Dealing with "whatever it takes" question? Check. Annoying civilian subplot? Check. Gratuitous product placement? Check. Agent Walker kicking ass and taking names? Check. Working with old lovers who betrayed the main character? Check. Firefight and gun-porn? Check. The main character going rogue with Agent Walker? CHECK.
It's so hilarious because they deal with the exact same questions and have the same kind of scenarios, but where 24 goes in the dramatic direction, Chuck goes for the comedy. Jack threatens people with household appliances, while Chuck does the Morgan. Chuck's version of "whatever it takes" means reenacting Weekend at Bernie's at a fake engagement. 24 has people struggling in ethical quandaries while Chuck deals with its trust issues with references from the Godfather and the Princess Bride. I LOVE THIS SHOW SO MUCH YOU GUYS.
And on the other side of the coin, 24:
Okay, let's start with the good first.
1. The Allison/Jack conversation and Allison/Hodges standoff. She and Jack had a pretty candid chat, and I'm surprised that he called her out as naive, but she was bullshitting him, so it's okay. Besides, she came through in the end by stalling really well and giving Jonas a false sense of security. Interesting though that Hodges is hiding and denying anything to do with Roger's death. That's gonna bite him in the ass when Henry's info comes out.
2. Jack and his altruistic suicidal tendencies. Awwwwww Jack! He's forgetting and I love that THAT is what unsettles him the most. Not the dying part, but the losing a piece of himself. I'm really appreciating the scenes he has with Sunny Macer, because she doesn't bullshit him but at the same time, she doesn't press him and tell him how to handle it "properly." (You know that any other doctor would be lecturing him to lie down but it's almost as though she knows better because she's work with him before.)
And he's so prepared to die that the idea of Renee calling in Kim gets him so upset, he can't even take it. Because WOW. The wall scene where he gets so scary and angry and she just stands there and takes it until he's finished before she fights back? He really is okay with dying, isn't he? He really does think that no one will care and that it's better for him to just fade away.
That's what I love about the way they wrote Kim's re-entrance into the show. Because it proves to him that he's wrong. Not just on the Kim front, but also on the Renee front, because someone cares enough to go over his head and make a call because the entire premise of his argument was founded on a false statement. I love that Renee let him yell at her because she understood that she crossed the line. Even more than that, though, I love that even when she did snap at him with the truth, she still put the decision back in his hands by giving him an out. She handled it perfectly. Renee was fucking perfect in this episode. (Also, someone fic Kim and Renee's conversation/first meeting please.)
3. And Kim. I love that she showed up at the Senate hearing and that she's been trying to get to him and freaking apologize for everything. And that she's been searching for him and hiring private detectives because THANK GOD that means that someone other than Audrey cared to look for Jack after S5. Kim doesn't have the connections Audrey had, so she was severely limited, but she kept on searching.
Kim has never been my favorite character, but I think they used her perfectly in here. She's grown up, she knows how she acted was immature, even if it was completely understandable, and I love that the entire conversation, it wasn't about blame, but apology and need. Elisha and Kiefer NAILED that scene.
And now to the "did this show just make a huge mistake?" portion of our post:
WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT? SHIT. SHIT. SHIT. Larry finally is on board with Team Awesome and they go and kill him? DAMNIT. NOT FAIR. NOT FUCKING FAIR, WRITERS. AND YOU HAD TONY BE THE ONE TO KILL HIM?! I mean, come on. You knew that he was going to die as soon as he said he and Renee had a lot to talk about, but I just....SIGH.
I was totally on board this season, but they've just made Tony a full fledged bad guy and they killed off the second best new character this season. I'm surprisingly more upset that they killed Larry than the fact that Tony is turning out to be evil. Maybe because we already got used to the idea that Tony had become a gray character with the reveal in Hour 3.
More probable, though, is that Larry's death hurts more because of HOW it happened. He had just gotten to be awesome and then they take him away in one of the cruelest ways possible. I could handle Tony being evil. I was getting to the point where I could handle losing Larry and my OT3, even though I thought we'd have at least a couple more hours with him.
But I wasn't prepared for them to lose both of them in one go, and not in this way. To preserve his cover Jack's best friend killed Renee's best friend/possible ex. Of all the mirrors of S1, the one I never once considered was that Tony would turn into Nina.
I mean, let's process that for a bit. Forget the shipper angst that will inevitably fallout from this. Renee is just going to be reeling from this. Her face in that promo...I just...Next week is gonna hurt. She just lost her best friend, and the only consolation she has was that at least they repaired their friendship before she lost him. And Jack...Jack might survive into S7, this betrayal is going to make him wish he was dead. Because Tony was the one who knew the man he has become the best. This is going to destroy him, because they all believed him, and he went to bat for Tony the way Bill did for Jack in Hour 11.
The tiny part of me that isn't completely crushed is still hoping that the writers will at least hinge onto that and manage to give Tony some sort of motivation that is akin to Jack's behavior in Hour 11. That somehow they will manage to explain all this in a way that is...if not satisfying at least from a creative POV, emotionally resonant. They need to convince me that Tony would do this. That it's not just black and white but so firmly in the grey, that he's not even a grey character anymore, because they have no shade for what he is. They have to make it complicated, not in the confusing way, but in the "you can see him struggle with it and understand why he's failing because there are so many factors to consider" kind of way.
Because I will not accept that he just did it because he's evil. Or that Tony did it for the money. It has to be more than just that. The entire season now hinges on the writers' ability to accomplish this because they just up and changed one of the cornerstones of the series' pathos, and now they have to figure out a way to a) tie it to the villain thread, which up until now has been fairly coherent, and b) do it such a fashion that makes sense to the characters.
I'm willing to stick it out because of the strength of the past 17 episodes and because they're still doing a great job with Jack and Renee and the Taylors. And there's real potential for them to get some great drama out of the fallout from this. But the payoff is only as good as you believe the twist, so there's also real potential for them to drop the ball here. My biggest fear is that this will turn into another case of Zack Addy on Bones, where it retroactively takes away my enjoyment of past seasons.
It could go either way. I'm hoping for the better. Still, any way you slice it, BOY is the rest of the season gonna hurt.
Chuck vs the First Kill:
1. OMG SARAH WENT ROGUE FOR CHUCK. SARAH WENT ROGUE FOR CHUCK!!!! Third time's a charm, I guess. And I really love how they just went full throttle, running away. And she was totally in complete and full girlfriend mode the entire episode. She brought him fro-yo, guys. Even when they disagree, Chuck and Sarah acted like such a couple. And her *face* when Jill's family was talking about how perfect Chuck and Jill were for each other, and Casey's face because he knew it was getting to her and Chuck's face being all so uncomfortable...it was just PERFECT. Also, that promo? Chuck and Sarah need to make out forever and ever and ever.
2. All in all though, I'm glad that Chuck won't change and that Jill's still a wild card. She has reasons to trust Chuck, and I'm glad that he let her go, because it leaves the door open for another game changer event. She still is selfish and self-serving and that's not going to change. Her loyalties are flexible, and it's now going to be a question of just how much she's willing to compromise herself for Chuck who loves her, but not THAT way anymore.
3. Man, Casey's gonna be pissed that they flipped on him and abandoned Team Chuck. He's right that Chuck is probably safer underground, but he's wrong because Chuck would just shut down if he were forced to do so. Still, I enjoyed their little moments discussing the Morgan and taking the test. Schnook and Copface are still so very awesome. And his face when he was being sarcastic about throwing Chuck into a hole? I liked that he didn't like it, but that his motivation for following through with the order is because it's to keep Chuck safe. When you consider that he knows it's the better alternative to what they ordered him to do in the premiere, his decision makes sense.
4. Now that Sarah and Chuck have gone rogue, does that mean that Chuck's going to have to use the Intersect Force and will information to come to him? I hope so. And I hope Sarah gets to see it.
5. And you guys, how Jack Bauer was Chuck tonight? With his "whatever it takes" and lying to his bitch of an ex and holding a bad guy over a railing ala Jack and Marwan in S4? Except, because he's Chuck and adorable, he's all, "No, that's a horrible way to die!" Heehee. I've never before have I seen the similarities of Chuck and 24 more than I did tonight. Questions of loyalty and betrayal? Check. Dealing with "whatever it takes" question? Check. Annoying civilian subplot? Check. Gratuitous product placement? Check. Agent Walker kicking ass and taking names? Check. Working with old lovers who betrayed the main character? Check. Firefight and gun-porn? Check. The main character going rogue with Agent Walker? CHECK.
It's so hilarious because they deal with the exact same questions and have the same kind of scenarios, but where 24 goes in the dramatic direction, Chuck goes for the comedy. Jack threatens people with household appliances, while Chuck does the Morgan. Chuck's version of "whatever it takes" means reenacting Weekend at Bernie's at a fake engagement. 24 has people struggling in ethical quandaries while Chuck deals with its trust issues with references from the Godfather and the Princess Bride. I LOVE THIS SHOW SO MUCH YOU GUYS.
And on the other side of the coin, 24:
Okay, let's start with the good first.
1. The Allison/Jack conversation and Allison/Hodges standoff. She and Jack had a pretty candid chat, and I'm surprised that he called her out as naive, but she was bullshitting him, so it's okay. Besides, she came through in the end by stalling really well and giving Jonas a false sense of security. Interesting though that Hodges is hiding and denying anything to do with Roger's death. That's gonna bite him in the ass when Henry's info comes out.
2. Jack and his altruistic suicidal tendencies. Awwwwww Jack! He's forgetting and I love that THAT is what unsettles him the most. Not the dying part, but the losing a piece of himself. I'm really appreciating the scenes he has with Sunny Macer, because she doesn't bullshit him but at the same time, she doesn't press him and tell him how to handle it "properly." (You know that any other doctor would be lecturing him to lie down but it's almost as though she knows better because she's work with him before.)
And he's so prepared to die that the idea of Renee calling in Kim gets him so upset, he can't even take it. Because WOW. The wall scene where he gets so scary and angry and she just stands there and takes it until he's finished before she fights back? He really is okay with dying, isn't he? He really does think that no one will care and that it's better for him to just fade away.
That's what I love about the way they wrote Kim's re-entrance into the show. Because it proves to him that he's wrong. Not just on the Kim front, but also on the Renee front, because someone cares enough to go over his head and make a call because the entire premise of his argument was founded on a false statement. I love that Renee let him yell at her because she understood that she crossed the line. Even more than that, though, I love that even when she did snap at him with the truth, she still put the decision back in his hands by giving him an out. She handled it perfectly. Renee was fucking perfect in this episode. (Also, someone fic Kim and Renee's conversation/first meeting please.)
3. And Kim. I love that she showed up at the Senate hearing and that she's been trying to get to him and freaking apologize for everything. And that she's been searching for him and hiring private detectives because THANK GOD that means that someone other than Audrey cared to look for Jack after S5. Kim doesn't have the connections Audrey had, so she was severely limited, but she kept on searching.
Kim has never been my favorite character, but I think they used her perfectly in here. She's grown up, she knows how she acted was immature, even if it was completely understandable, and I love that the entire conversation, it wasn't about blame, but apology and need. Elisha and Kiefer NAILED that scene.
And now to the "did this show just make a huge mistake?" portion of our post:
WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT? SHIT. SHIT. SHIT. Larry finally is on board with Team Awesome and they go and kill him? DAMNIT. NOT FAIR. NOT FUCKING FAIR, WRITERS. AND YOU HAD TONY BE THE ONE TO KILL HIM?! I mean, come on. You knew that he was going to die as soon as he said he and Renee had a lot to talk about, but I just....SIGH.
I was totally on board this season, but they've just made Tony a full fledged bad guy and they killed off the second best new character this season. I'm surprisingly more upset that they killed Larry than the fact that Tony is turning out to be evil. Maybe because we already got used to the idea that Tony had become a gray character with the reveal in Hour 3.
More probable, though, is that Larry's death hurts more because of HOW it happened. He had just gotten to be awesome and then they take him away in one of the cruelest ways possible. I could handle Tony being evil. I was getting to the point where I could handle losing Larry and my OT3, even though I thought we'd have at least a couple more hours with him.
But I wasn't prepared for them to lose both of them in one go, and not in this way. To preserve his cover Jack's best friend killed Renee's best friend/possible ex. Of all the mirrors of S1, the one I never once considered was that Tony would turn into Nina.
I mean, let's process that for a bit. Forget the shipper angst that will inevitably fallout from this. Renee is just going to be reeling from this. Her face in that promo...I just...Next week is gonna hurt. She just lost her best friend, and the only consolation she has was that at least they repaired their friendship before she lost him. And Jack...Jack might survive into S7, this betrayal is going to make him wish he was dead. Because Tony was the one who knew the man he has become the best. This is going to destroy him, because they all believed him, and he went to bat for Tony the way Bill did for Jack in Hour 11.
The tiny part of me that isn't completely crushed is still hoping that the writers will at least hinge onto that and manage to give Tony some sort of motivation that is akin to Jack's behavior in Hour 11. That somehow they will manage to explain all this in a way that is...if not satisfying at least from a creative POV, emotionally resonant. They need to convince me that Tony would do this. That it's not just black and white but so firmly in the grey, that he's not even a grey character anymore, because they have no shade for what he is. They have to make it complicated, not in the confusing way, but in the "you can see him struggle with it and understand why he's failing because there are so many factors to consider" kind of way.
Because I will not accept that he just did it because he's evil. Or that Tony did it for the money. It has to be more than just that. The entire season now hinges on the writers' ability to accomplish this because they just up and changed one of the cornerstones of the series' pathos, and now they have to figure out a way to a) tie it to the villain thread, which up until now has been fairly coherent, and b) do it such a fashion that makes sense to the characters.
I'm willing to stick it out because of the strength of the past 17 episodes and because they're still doing a great job with Jack and Renee and the Taylors. And there's real potential for them to get some great drama out of the fallout from this. But the payoff is only as good as you believe the twist, so there's also real potential for them to drop the ball here. My biggest fear is that this will turn into another case of Zack Addy on Bones, where it retroactively takes away my enjoyment of past seasons.
It could go either way. I'm hoping for the better. Still, any way you slice it, BOY is the rest of the season gonna hurt.
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I keep going back to the phone call with Larry. Apparently whatever they had to talk about will no longer take place. I almost felt like Larry was going to say more, maybe even tell her he loved her before getting interupted. I eagerly await Renee's reaction to Larry's death. It will surely affect her to a great extent, and I know Annie is going to impress. I hope this brings her and Jack closer together, but I fear it won't, at least not in the beginning.
Kim and Jack were perfect. I loved the scene. I hate that Jack told her to leave, but I understand and thought it worked very well. Kim did not fail me! =D
I have no words for Tony. I do, however, have faith that the writers will make this work out. They did not stop and take a break in production for no reason. I strongly believe that they took the extra time to put every loose end together and make this believable. I have NO idea what is going to happen, which I consider a good thing, and I am confident that, given time, all will be revealed and make perfect sense. I expected Larry to die, but not like that, I was not prepared for that. I'm still in shock, which is why I am still awake and responding to a post I knew you would have up, so thank you!
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She defintely had her own reasons for doing this. But because it turned out that Jack was wrong about Kim, it's forgivable and I liked that she still made it all about HIM and HIS decision by offering to keep Kim away from Jack after giving him the truth. She just wanted to make sure he had all the facts.
Next week is going to kill me. I just know it. I'm so upset we got deprived of Renee and Larry's conversation.
As to faith in the writers? I am strangely buoyed by the fact that this was their plan all along to make Tony evil. If they can make me believe that it comes from a real, if not ugly, place in Tony's character, then I might be willing to accept it and take the emotional fallout from Renee and Jack as the payoff. But my Tony love run deep, so they better make this work. It better be WORTH turning him evil, you know?
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Oh Larry, the target on your back, you could see it from Space.
LOVE how Taylor stalled Hodges while Tony hunted down the rockets. Hope Hodges doesn’t work out a silly immunity agreement.
Shouldn't Starkwood soldiers and Evil Scientists be wearing Hazmat Suits or Masks around all the bio-weapons?
Taylor’s Mom-Like concern for Jack is wonderful. I'm kinda speculating that Taylor is (subconsciously) looking for a surrogate son or something.
Tony. Bleeech. He was always shifty to me. What WAS he dping while the White House was being invaded, anyway? Perhaps that has something to do with it.
LARRRRYYYYYYYYY. The subsitute Bill is no more.
So who will run CTU (ER, I mean the FBI) Renee?
f Jack is losing his mind he no longer has the power to make his own decisions. Kim gets power of attorny and can dictate his care. Right? RIGHT!!!
I have a very sick thought: Jack will somehow get a hold of Hodges and torture him. Then forget what he was torturing him about.
What's worse: Jack detoriating in body or in mind?
Remember that there is only a "Chance" that the stem cells will work. And they would take more than six hours to kick in (Wouldn't they?). Still hoping for an antidote so that we can resolve this storyline by the end of the season.
I predict that Chloe will discover the formula for said antidote while combing through Starkwoods computer files.
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2. Sniff. Poor Larry.
3. No, the Starkwood guys don't need masks because they have an antidote. That's why Hodges is going to get out. They need to negotiate to save Jack. *nods head*
4. I could see that with Taylor. She's operating without the chance to grieve, and I love the mention of Roger in the same episode that she was so Mom-like with Jack.
5. See my next post.
6. Shit, I guess that means Renee's in charge of the FBI. She's clearly the second in command. Awww, Renee. Next week is gonna hurt so bad.
7. You know, that is definitely one possibility. But honestly, what is stopping her from having the cells taken out right now? It's her body. And once it's done and she survives and proves that she's fine, Jack won't have any foothold to stand on.
8. I really cannot wait for Chloe to come back. That PSA was adorable and only made me miss MLR more.
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I'm glad you have this much. Because I don't. After losing Bill, I was holding onto my love because of Larry mostly, and Renee next, and then Tony. And now in one fell swoop, it's gone. Gone.
And so am I.
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They have a plan. I don't know if I'll like it, but the English major in me can at least be satisfied if they commit to it and manage to sell me on this development. They need to recreate a new pathos for the show, because they just ripped out one of the few anchors we have by turning Tony evil. Watching 24 is like being tethered by string and being left to twist in the wind. It doesn't have to be much, but you have to be able to count on certain things, and up until this season, Tony's goodness has always been one of 3 things you could hang onto.
What this episode has confirmed for me is that all season long, they'e been prepping us for this development by making Renee so awesome.
In many ways, she has been functioning as the emotional anchor that Tony usually occupies. I don't think it's an accident that I totally fell in love with her character, and I heart her the way I used to heart Tony. If they knew they were going to take Tony away from us as an ally, they had to give us something to hang onto to, and that's Renee.
Which...if they're recreating that pathos around Renee instead of Tony, I'm not sure how I feel about it. It's switching out one great character for another, when really, we could have had both. And it gets further complicated when you toss in the potential shipperness.
So...I don't know. I'm willing to see it through to the end, but how much I watch beyond that into S8 will be determined by how well they sell this development.